So the guide I just finished writing is for Mana Khemia, a PS2 RPG of the Gust lineage. It's a series I basically like, but in a conflicted way. The games are really progressive and challenging in some respects, mindlessly easy and somewhat backwards in others. Playing it for the 100+ hours guidework demands left me with a lot of thoughts about what's right and wrong in RPGs. Yeah, this isn't too Nintendo-focused (outside of my examples, anyway), but it's just relevant enough that I felt like posting it! The list starts behind the cut.
7. Mandatory Tutorials
I don't mind in-game tutorials in principle, but they are more or less something I only ever want to see once if at all. Nothing kills my momentum when replaying a game like tutorials, and too many at once can really cool off my interest in a game. A well-done tutorial is brief, unobtrusive, and explains the game's system points to you in a transparent way.
There is nothing in the world more boring than replaying a tutorial, and I can't conceive of why more games don't let you skip. Sometimes I think much of my issue with the switch to 3D for Zelda was the sudden, massive proliferation of in-game tutorials in the 3D titles. Twilight Princess was a bear to get into because for the first few hours the game was always forcing you to do something boring to prove you understood how to play it.
6. Obligatory Characters
This is primarily an issue with Japanese RPGs. If you're going to deprive me of the freedom to make my own character in an RPG, I expect the game itself to be providing with a decent story that features entertaining characters. If the game has a large cast, I want all of the story's characters to be distinct in terms of both personality and mechanics.
An element of making a character distinct is that they have to be at least somewhat original. Even if it's just a quirk or mannerism, or a detail of motivation that sets them apart from the pack... the game needs that. A game that lacks that ends up being... well, like Tales of Symphonia, a world populated entirely by people who are results of running the Random Anime Character Generator.
Either way, it's a basically undesirable situation. If you're going to have a big ensemble cast, go the FFVI route and make all of the characters completely distinct in terms of personality and, to a degree, what their mechanical abilities are. If you can't think of a lot of good characters for your game, then shrink the cast size down until all of the characters are good, and put effort into making the rest of the game better. If you can't think of any good characters, then just let players design their own and put effort into making the game's world interesting.
5. Junk Stats
This is a pet peeve with Japanese RPGs, which really go crazy for this sort of thing. Look, if I can't look at your status screen and immediately figure out what all the numbers mean, or can't go to an in-game help system or the game manual and figure out the same thing, your game has a problem. It's even worse if the game or manual is telling me things about the stats that turn out to be flagrant lies to due programming errors. (This is shockingly common with the classic NES and SNES RPGs; whole chunks of the game system just didn't work properly in the original editions of Final Fantasy and FFVI.)
Despite living in an era when most games are deathly afraid of making a player do something challenging, RPGs are still utterly addicted to junk stats. This even affected Etrian Odyssey, a game I otherwise love to death; huge chunks of the stat and skill system tell you nothing about what the numbers mean until you've done lots of painful trial-and-error testing or done hours reading the GameFAQs results of other people doing that. If the point of stats is to define a character, there's no point in attaching numbers to them that aren't self-evidently important to what you're doing in the game.
4. Pointless Grind
One of the most interesting things about Mana Khemia is that it totally throws out the experience point system every other RPG in the universe uses to advance characters. That's right, no matter how many random battles you grind through, your characters never get tougher. As for how they actually get tougher... well, you kind of have to play the game for it to make any sense, but it's way better than killing monsters.
I find myself wondering why more games, and especially higher-profile games, haven't done this. The XP grind has its place and if the grind is well-designed, you can get something joyous like Etrian Odyssey or the Nippon Ichi strategy games or what's shaping up to be my next addiction, Shiren the Wanderer DS. Still, it makes no sense that twenty years of video game development hasn't managed to come up with more creative ways of character advancement than what Gary Gygax conceived when he designed D&D back in the late 70's.
If anything, there seems to be less thought than ever put into the basic idea of leveling up, thanks to the influence of MMOs. Since MMORPGs draw their complexity from social interactions and the persistence of the game world, well, the core engine needs to stay somewhat simple. Now that MMOs are influencing single-player console RPG design, you have your Final Fantasies and Dragon Quests getting grindier and, frankly, less creative. I'd rather see more RPGs try to find ways to throw experience points out completely.
3. Gratuitous World-Saving
This is more an objection to story than actual gameplay, and I don't usually raise these because the sophistication of your average video game story is slightly worse than your average Golden Age comic book. The medium is still growing, and stories just aren't going to grow more sophisticated until technology stops advancing quite so rapidly. Games will definitely be art at some point in the future, but they aren't now and may not be before I die.
This said: I'm really, really tired of RPGs where we're supposed to care because the fantastic world of Genericland is being threatened by Evil Dude, who wants to blow it up or rule it or something. This is not an essential element of RPG storytelling. A good RPG can be about anything and have any sort of setting, as Persona 3 and Mass Effect aptly prove. Sure, neither game is trail-blazing fiction, but they still manage to be trail-blazing RPGs just because you never have to go punch absolute evil in the cock for lack of anything better to do.
I'm finding myself interested in Shiren the Wanderer simply because the story is "Shiren wants to find a fabulous lost treasure, and here's the crazy stuff he does to try and get to it", and I can very easily sympathize with a pro-active protagonist whose motivation is "I'm broke" and is risking life and limb to do something about it. Yet still we get tons of Tales of Symphonia-alikes shoveled out, about generic heroes on a generic adventure to save a generic world from generic bad guys.
Look, developers, making the stakes in your game "higher" by threatening a world players have no reason to care about does nothing. Make characters with identifiable motivations and you'll hook players into your story, and you might end up with a story actually worth telling, too.
2. Inconsistent Difficulty
This is the Rogue Galaxy problem, as I like to think of it. Rogue Galaxy was the last PS2 RPG created by Professor Layton developers Level-5, and it was in most respects a good if somewhat forgettable experience. The ending, however, is burned into my brain, because it's one of the stupidest things I've ever played.
The bulk of Rogue Galaxy is a team-oriented action RPG where you have to use group tactics, speed, and reflexes to beat monsters. For the game's hour-long climax, you have... a series of seven one-on-one gimmick battles with your party members, and then a super-duper final battles where the hero fights the final monster with a giant sword. Your stats and items up to this point are totally irrelevant to how this final battle plays out, and the controls and strategies are arbitrarily unlike anything else you've done in the game. This is horrible and made me want to go find Akihiro Hino and kick him in the shin.
A good RPG has what is best described as a difficulty curve. Things start off a little easy, and then slowly, more problems trickle in to the game to solve. You get more abilities to play with and more decisions to make. The classic Dragon Quests are pretty good examples of this, really. Give players a few toys, and let them learn how to use them. Then let them have more and more. Ideally you've stopped with the tutorial information early in the game, and the players are now out exploring the possibilities inherent in the systems you've introduced.
1. Invalid Difficulty
The concept of invalid difficulty is one I explain like so: if it is a gameplay element that makes victory a function of investing time, rather than tactical decision-making, it is invalid difficulty. You didn't really make the game harder, you just made a lazy programming decision and made the monster's numbers bigger. Probably the classic example of this is Yiazmat from FFXII, who is perfectly beatable with the right kit and a few clever tricks-- but under no conditions can you beat him quickly. He has very big numbers, you see.
Look, this kind of thing is stupid and poor excuse for "bonus challenge". Make something hard to do or at least don't screw around and waste the player's time. Shiren the Wanderer is again what springs to mind as an example of valid difficulty. Things in it are just legitimately hard to do. They're never impossible, but there is no set formula you can duplicate to achieve instant success. The randomized nature of the game means you can't always have the items you want and don't know what you're fighting next. So you have to make do with what you can find, and try to manipulate other game systems to try and create a store of items that will persist between your many inevitable deaths. Getting to new areas or finding endgame stuff is a legitimate thrill, because you can't predict when or how it will happen.
Invalid difficulty challenges bother me because you end up with "challenges" that pretty much any idiot can handle, provided they have some idea of what in-game items to gather up and the time to invest in grinding through. It's similar to the endgame content in MMOs, but there gathering up your kit is fun, because other people can help you and you can help them. The preparation becomes an excuse to socialize.
Just about any gameplay goal becomes more interesting if you have a bunch of people involved in achieving it, no matter how banal otherwise. For whatever reason, it seems like single-player RPG designers are mistaking the system content of MMOs for what actually makes the genre popular, the social interaction. This is a case where aping the popular thing won't make your games better. It will, in fact, make them worse. Challenges that just revolve around having the right kit are dumb, RPG designers, and they have no place in single-player games.
Comments
5.Junk Stats? Been playing RPGs since the original Final Fantasy when I was 9 can't say I've ever had the problem of not knowing what stats did what for the most part of always considered it common sense, but i guess it requires a bit of intelligence some people obviously lack.
2. Inconsistent Difficulty ,. in Rogue Galaxy?,. No ,. if Grandia III was listed I would Agree, the Final Boss Battle is Exponentially Harder then the rest of the Game. But this is the only RPG I've ever noticed this in.
7. Mandatory Tutorials ,. this one I really Agree with. I love RPG, especially JRPG like Final Fantasy but the Tutorials can get really frustrating, it wouldn't be so bad if the changed up the pace and made them a lil more interesting somehow.
Great article, Lynxara! I popped up a post on omgRPG to point people here. Cross promotion for the win! We RPG addicts need to stick together!
See, if common sense really solved the problem, I'd have no complaint. The problem with Junk Stats is that they frequently defy common sense.
Some stats in FFVI do nothing at all, because of programming error. Similarly, some stats in Final Fantasy just did nothing at all. Likewise, you can invest in stats in Etrian Odyssey that literally do nothing. They are basically traps, waiting to lure you into wasting your valuable skill points.
I find it hard to argue that this is a good thing from any angle (for all that the games in question are basically good).
I like the article, but some parts I disagree with...
3. Some games are not using that story line anymore, but sometimes, I don't see any other way to pursue a story with out some gargantuan danger preparing to destroy/enslave/etc the world. But at least their reasons are great. Like Kuja from FFIX. All because of his "expiration date", he deems the universe unfit to live and it should die with him. But fails and decides to assist. I find that interesting.
5. I usually see the point of stats, and very rarely do they make the technical mistakes they did 15 years ago. And they nicely lable them to make a better understanding. Strength, Speed, Intellegence, Stamina. Not that hard to connect the dots.
6. I really have never played a game where the characters weren't intresting and different. Actually, sometimes it was a bit too much personality.
BUt for the most part, I completely agree.
what stats exactly in any Final Fantasy game did nothing at all?,. memory obviously needs refreshing on that one
In the original FF, elemental branding did basically nothing due to programming error. This was fixed in later ports, but in the original, you get no extra damage out of branded equipment.
FFVI is infamous for having one stat that did absolutely nothing (MDef) in its SNES incarnation, and many stats that only sort of did something. There's quite a bit written about this.
I've heard it argued FFVIII was the apex of junk stattery in FF before they cleaned it up a bit in more recent titles, but there was so much wrong with that game I don't know where to start...
6) How the heck did you end up at that? How much of Symphonia did you play, if I may ask? And did you view any of the skits (which have a decent amount of character development in them)?
Only because most of the characters were developed pretty well, and in the case of some like Presea and Sheena, especially well-developed in their character background (noteable Presea). If you need me to, I could easily point out traits for each character, since I've played the game quite a few times now...
3) Do some background information before you put up an article. If you've played any Tales games outside of Symphonia, you would know that injustice and racial hatred is a central theme in most of the games (racial especially in Tales of Rebirth), as well as the characters growing up and growing as a character (such as in Tales of the Abyss). Plus it was painfully obvious that Symphonia's text in many parts was meant as a nod to the most well-known RPG cliches ever. Having a KoToR- story in Tales would make it exactally un-Tales. Why do you think the series is essentially the cloest JRPG to Final Fantasy in sales?
5) I had no issue w/ "junk stats". If I needed, I could easily look up a word to get the jist of it.
Yeah, I saw the skits. They were... predictable. Got a chuckle out of me once or twice. Can't say they made me care, a lot of the "revelations" were pretty well-worn.
Acknowledging your plot is a pile of cliches doesn't actually make it interesting, and is in fact somewhat terrible. There are more options besides "terrible" than "knockoff KotOR", too...
I don't really give a damn how well Tales sells, because terrible games move lots of copies all the time. (And if sales equate to quality, then any Tales game is clearly much lousier than Mario Party 8, wouldn't you agree? Of course you don't.)
The idea that Tales of Symphonia is about racial hatred and injustice in any way worth talking about is so naive that I can't be bothered with it. I will instead say this: most fans I know agree that Tales is generally a character-driven series written in a spirit of light comedy and high adventure.
How does it make a character-driven game better to have a trite and cliched cast, who largely do things the player can easily predict? The inescapable conclusion would seem to be that it doesn't.
that doesnt sound like a whole lot to complain about especailly when it's 20yr old games be different if you were talking about recent games that's the thing.So you don't care for a story w/ racial injustice & hatred, and know the series makes fun of certain cliches. That isn't a reason to say every RPG shouldn't do that.
We'd get either games with such a politically-driven story (FFXII), or American-ized RPG's. JRPG's are known for being against the story type you disliked. Maybe it might be better to say you wouldn't want to see American RPG's take that route? ;)
I care lots about stories about racial injustice and hatred! It's why I love Maus and the Harlem Renaissance writers. Tales's treatment of those themes has all the nuance and complexity of a four-year-old scribbling in crayon. Mostly it's there to feebly add gravitas to a plot that's really just generic shounen crap. Whatever.
I do think FFXII had a pretty good story, although it wasn't terribly original (a large part of it is just Star Wars). I don't think I'd want many more like that, since I've already seen Star Wars. It was nice as a space for creating memorable characters, though.
I don't know why you keep thinking we have no option besides "Tales" superficiality or American RPGs, or that I hate Japanese RPGs, but here's a tip: my favorite game developers are Atlus. They were making stuff that was just... inarguably better than Tales in 1994. Their modern stuff makes Symphonia look like a tinker toy set.
My problem with Symphonia is how boring and trite it is (outside of combat) compared to better Japanese RPGs... in some cases, much older ones made with inferior technology. Argue that successfully and I'll be interested in reading it.
In the body of the article, I name an RPG that came out in 2007 that has the exact same problem. I could name a lot more but we'd be here all day. You only asked for Final Fantasy examples. Are you one of those guys where "RPG" only ever means "Final Fantasy", or what?
Actually i've never played that one so good point,. i guess lol, i guess you've played a few that i havent cause i just can't personally think of a RPG i've played where i've actually noticed a stat that had no effect.
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